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Θέμα: Model options

  1. Model options

    Hi guys,

    I am looking to buy a Smart fortwo 450 2002 to 2004 year, problem i have is there is such a selection here in Greece it's difficult to narrow the potential purchases down a bit.

    To make matters worse i'm told that some models have a fully automatic gearchange and other need to be changed gear by hand.

    I'm also confused about the mileage, reading through the various forums some owners are at 90k KM with no burning problems while others are experiencing problems as low as 50k KM.

    So i would really appreciate it if someone could answer me a few questions please.

    What is difference between the Pure, Pulse and Passion models here in Greece please?

    What models came with fully Auto gearchange?

    If they did not come in fully Auto can this be retro fitted?

    Any other advice or help greatly appreciated.


    Cheers
    Mark

  2. #2

    Απάντηση: Model options

    Hello Mark and welcome to SmartMania!

    First of all, fortwo models were initially launched with a 600cc engine, while around 2003 a new 700cc engine was fitted instead. You should go for the 700cc engined fortwo for many reasons, inlcuding: a) bigger engine "lifetime", b) faster gear changing, c) ESP instead of anti-spin (named Trust+) etc.

    All models (Pure-pulse-passion) have semi-automatic gearbox, where the driver can change gear using the stick (up/down for changing gears). Additionally, Passion model has fully automatic function, where the driver pushes a button at the gear level in order to switch from "manual" to automatic mode. The "fully automatic mode" can be retro fitted. The approximate cost for this can be around 200-300 Euros, depending on the garage that you will go to do this ("Official Smart Center are more expensive).

    Concerning engine lifetime, it all has to do with how the previous user was maintaining the car. If the previous user was servicing the car regularly (i.e. oil change every 5.000km etc), and it he was "treating" the little engine correclty, then the car can go and go without problem for many Kms. I would say that for a 700cc fortwo, 100k can be achieved without problem.

    Concerning car editions (for the 2004 700cc models):
    1) Pure is the basic edition, with "solid" plastic roof, black tridion, steel wheels (Tyres 145/65R15 front - 175/55R15 rear)
    2) Passion is the "comfortacle" edition, with glass roof, automatic gearbox, silver tridion, alloy wheels ((Tyres 145/65R15 front - 175/55R15 rear)
    3) Pulse is the "sporty" edition, with glass roof, fog lights and alloy wheels with wider tyres (175/55R15 front - 195/50R15 rear)

    All the above are the car's standard equipment, and of course almost all of the above mentioned can be retrofitted.

    For anything more, don't hesitate to ask


  3. Απάντηση: Model options

    Fantastic response and a great help, thank you very much.


    We have been to see a few Smarts for sale so far, but unfortunately all were burning oil.
    We need one which as the fully Automatic option so it looks like we will have to look at the passion version.

    It's a tough choice, do we buy a cheap Smart (as it will be a second car used only around Athens), or do we pay more and go for the newer 700cc version.

    A few more questions please.
    Is there any way of telling from pics if the car has cruise control fitted?
    Is it an extra stalk on the steering column?
    Is it fitted on the left side or right side of the steering wheel?

    As i will be spending a lot of time on Attiki Othos i figured cruise control will be a worthwhile option, does it work well on the Smarts?



    Cheers
    Mark

  4. #4

    Απάντηση: Model options

    Hi and welcome to our forum!
    regarding your questions now:
    If the pics are from interior yes we can see if cruise control is fitted.
    nop there is no extra stalk, in the same right stalk there is also option regarding the adjustment of speed control.
    ...η γνώση είναι δύναμη...
    ---roadster coupe 1000 B---

  5. #5

    Απάντηση: Model options

    Hello Mark!

    Some additional info:
    1) Concerning Cruise control, things are just like DjVolis says. The cruise control stalk looks almost the same as the "basic" stalk, which is at the right of the steering column (The one for the wipers). In addition to the "basic" stalk, cruise control has an extra "ring" with "+" and "-" markings. Also, at the end of the stalk (at the right) there is a button as well. Cruise control stalk can be retrofitted as well, with cost around 200+ euros (including stalk + programming). Only 700cc cars have cruise control.

    2) Concerning the dilemma between 600cc and 700cc, it is only a matter of money I would say.
    For example, 600cc engine (as well as 700cc) can be rebuilt, with a cost around 1000e for the 600cc and 1700-1800 for the 700cc. The result is a totally new engine, which can last for many many kms (with proper use 80k can be easily reached). I would insist in buying a 700cc though, as it is a better equipped car overall (ESP, Hill assist, Break Assist are standard equipment for all 700cc fortwos only).

    3) If you finally choose to buy a 700, i would strongly recommend Pulse model, with retrofitted "auto" gear change function. The tires/wheels are wider, which helps a lot with side strong winds, and there is also a 3 spoke steering wheel with gear change paddles. (To tell you the truth, i wanted auto gear box as well, and i ordered my pulse with extra auto gear box. Never or almost never used it. It is so easy to change gear either from the stick or from the steering wheel paddles, that you forget to use the auto function).


  6. #6
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    Απάντηση: Model options

    Also Mark you should know that in Athens there are lot of car workshops specialized in Smart service... Before you buy a smart car you must visit one of that workshops to check the car if it is OK... Also even if manual gear change is very easy like djvolis said, you should consider buying one with fully automatic gearchange... It is very good if you are really bored in traffic Fully auto can be retrofitted with about 50 Euro for a second hand gear stick with the auto-button and 100-200 Euro for the programming of the button...

    Tell us about how much money you are able to give for a smart car, because if you give about 8000 or more you could buy a new smart car with 1000cc engine...

  7. Απάντηση: Model options

    Thanks again for the warm welcome and fantastic advice, very much appreciated

    So it's looking like pretty much anything can be swapped and changed around on these Smarts.
    Unfortunately i need a full Auto version though as my left arm is paralysed.

    The paddleshift would be ok except the downshift is on the left which makes things kinda awkward.

    Is it possible to have both the paddleshift and fully Auto on the same car?
    Me Mrs will be driving it as well, so that would be pretty much ideal.

    I'm not worried about the traction control, ABS etc, but i think i will limit my searches to the 700c as it seems that these motors are a little more reliable.

    As for how much i'm willing to pay, well the first idea was to buy a really cheap one just as a car to get around Athens in.
    Like everything though you start thinking well if i add a little more money i get this, a little more and i get that.
    So what started out as a cheap little runabout, turns into a car that costs more than the car i'm trying to keep nice

    From what i've seen so far you can find a reasonable mileage Smart with decent extras for around €4500.
    For the 700's this seems around the start price.

    Although there are several pre 2004 700's on car.gr, i'm guessing these have the 700cc motor retro fitted?
    Only 2004 on were official 700cc's right?

    Another quick question please.
    I realise the 1000cc motors are fairly new now, so will be expensive, but is it possible to fit the 1000cc motor in a 700cc engine bay?

    Again thanks for the help and advice guys, it's really helping.


    Cheers
    Mark

  8. #8

    Απάντηση: Model options

    Παράθεση Αρχικά καταχωρημένο από Gixer Εμφάνιση Μηνύματος
    Is it possible to have both the paddleshift and fully Auto on the same car?
    Me Mrs will be driving it as well, so that would be pretty much ideal.
    Hello Mark,

    Of course this can be done. For example, a Pulse version can have auto function (either pre-installed as a factory equipment or retro-fitted).
    Another example, at a Passion version (which has the auto function), a three-spoke steering wheel (the one with the paddles) can be retro fitted. So, you guess well, almost anything can be retro fitted

    Παράθεση Αρχικά καταχωρημένο από Gixer Εμφάνιση Μηνύματος
    I realise the 1000cc motors are fairly new now, so will be expensive, but is it possible to fit the 1000cc motor in a 700cc engine bay?
    This is why I wrote "almost anything can be retrofitted". This is one thing that is difficult to be done, and hasn't been achieved - yet.
    In order to fit a 1000cc engine from the second generation fortwo (451) to the old 600-700cc generation fortwo (450), you deal with many issues. First of all, the size of the "package" motor-gearbox, which is bigger enough than the 700cc. Another issue is that you practically need to change everything, except from the chassis : Wirings, CPU's, engine, gearbox, etc. So it is not worth it, especially since no one has done it yet as I said before.

    L.


  9. Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    I guess if you had to go to that much trouble you'd be better fitting a 1000cc + motorbike engine.

    It's not bad news though, as i promised both myself and the Mrs i'd do no tuning on this car, so anything that prevents that will help dissuade me
    Talked to the Mrs today we're settled on a 2004> 700c, so it's just a case of going out and looking at a few.

    There are a couple in the various Greek car sales media, one in Northern Athens looks to be fairly low mileage and decent condition from the pics, but unfortunately has leather seats
    Still it's a good price so as long as it's not burning oil i can recover the seats.

  10. Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    Well still searching.

    Seems finding a decent Smart in Athens is more difficult than i thought, we must have seen upwards of 30 Smarts by now.


    Another quick question though please.


    I keep seeing 2004 onwards Smarts shown as 600cc.

    My understanding is all for2's were 700cc from 2004 onwards, is this correct?




    Cheers
    Mark

  11. Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    Thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated.

    Managed to eventually find a car, was more than i wanted to pay for the age, but to be honest we have seen THAT many poor Smarts over the past month or 2 i thought sod it.

    It's a 2004 700cc Passion.










    Motor looks to be good, not really done enough KM on it yet to tell if it's burning oil, but it pulls stronger and feels tighter than many of the other 700cc's i test drove.

    Car feels great around Athens, only real downside are the gear changes.
    I've read that getting the ECU flashed to Brabus spec improves the shift time slightly and gives the motor a little more boost.

    Is this correct?
    What sort of prices can i expect to pay for this in Athens?

    Am also keeping my eye out for a cruise control stalk to help on Attiki Othos.




    Cheers
    Mark

  12. #12

    Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    Very nice f2!
    as for your questions regarding the brabus upgrade...
    yes it improves the "boost" of the car but unfortunately not the gear changes..
    the retail price (together with coding and TIK pipe) is >1200.00€ in authorized mercedes/smart service centers.
    you may do it also in some specialized smart service centers with cost (around the half of the amount) ...
    ...η γνώση είναι δύναμη...
    ---roadster coupe 1000 B---

  13. Re: Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    Παράθεση Αρχικά καταχωρημένο από djvolis Εμφάνιση Μηνύματος
    Very nice f2!
    as for your questions regarding the brabus upgrade...
    yes it improves the "boost" of the car but unfortunately not the gear changes..
    the retail price (together with coding and TIK pipe) is >1200.00€ in authorized mercedes/smart service centers.
    you may do it also in some specialized smart service centers with cost (around the half of the amount) ...
    Thank you.

    Got to say i'm really enjoying driving it around Athens, there are dents and scratches on nearly all the panels so it's really nice to be able to park it not worry about it.
    It's also a pretty decent drive, the 700cc motor pulls well in first and second, it absorbs the various potholes pretty well, and handles far better than anything that wheelbase should.

    Only downside are the gearchanges and lack of storage room for things like sunglasses, Ipod, Fire extinguisher etc etc.

    Spoke a guy on another forum that i was talking to, he said there are a few companies in the UK doing reprograms and these do help the gearshift slightly.
    Only thing is they also up the boost.

    Not really bothered about making the Smart any faster, it's fast enough for around town, so i'd sooner keep the boost low and have the motor last a bit longer between rebuilds.

    I'm going to keep my eye out for a reasonably priced paddleshift wheel, as i've found manually shifting makes a massive difference.
    Need to find a decent place in Athens that will do the TAN upgrade though i think?


    Cheers
    Mark

  14. #14
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    Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    I dont know if your smart car already has a drawer under driver's seat but its very useful for little things.. More info HERE

    Also in the drawer under the cd-player you can store your glasses or your ipod... To avoid scratches on the ipod screen or the sunglasses you can glue a soft protective tissue... As for the fire extinguisher buy a small one and store it behind your seat or the passenger's seat...

    There are lot of companies in Greece that can remap your car... The faster gear change comes from the more torque only.. Also if a remap is done by a professional with good reputation, it wont hurt the motor...

    HERE is a list with shops about smart (workshops, accessories, used parts).. You can ask there for a paddleshift wheel and the TAN code... To use the TAN code (to activate the paddles) it just needs a program called STAR or Xentry.. All the workshops that fix smart, they can program your car... Not only the official retailers..

    I hope my English is good so you can understand me

  15. Re: Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Model options

    Hi,

    Thanks for the response, your English is perfect.

    Nope no under seat drawer on my car unfortunately
    My sunglasses and Ipod both together will not fit in the drawer under the radio, and with that net type material used on the door pockets it's not exactly secure to store anything of value there either.

    I have a Auto search on ebay, so fingers crossed i'll find one of those under seat drawers going cheap soon.


    Great link thanks, i'll try a few local places in the week and get some prices.

    Frustrating thing is i have been tuning my own cars for around 25 years, i also run a supercharged MX5 that i have tuned and modified myself.
    So i know my way around air/fuel ratios, ignition timing mapping etc.
    With these cars though i run aftermarket ECU's so the programming software is supplied with the unit.

    I've spent a few hours searching but the software required to adjust the smarts air/fuel ratio's, ignition advance, boost etc seems to be either
    a/ Sold by Mercedes and is mega expensive
    b/ Sold by some very dodgy internet trading company and completely illegal

    I have found a version of the Xentry software you told me about, fingers crossed that works ok.
    My Brother-in-law is a mechanic with his own garage so i'll pop in tomorrow and ask him what software he uses.
    Are these typical OBDII software programs or Smart/Mercedes specific?

    I'm guessing they connect to the laptop vis the OBDII port right?



    Cheers
    Mark

  16. Re: Model options

    Going great with the car so far.

    We have 2 more cars in the house a Megane and a 240bhp MX5, yet it's a fight for the keys for the Smart every day.
    Getting used to the gear change now (in Auto mode) so it doesn't seem as bad as first, still keeping my eye out for a cheap paddleshift steering wheel though.

    I do need to replace the tyres though.

    Over the years i've tried all the usual suspects with regards to tyres and i really rate the Toyo T1-R's.
    The softer sidewall really helps with corner stability on the crap roads here, plus they offer great grip for 90% of driving (tend to melt on the track).

    So i'd like to try these on the smart.

    The car came with MonoblockIV wheels so 5" front and 6.5" rear.

    Toyo do not do a 175/55 R15 T1-R the nearest size is the 185/55
    Toyo give a wheel width of 5" to 6.5" for this tyre, so it should fit.

    Will the slightly wider tyre physically fit on the front of the 450 though?
    If so how does this effect the car with regards to tramlining etc?

    Toyo do make a 195/50 R15 T1-R so that's all good for the rear.
    I'm tempted to try the 205/50 R15 though, any thoughts on this choice?



    Cheers
    Mark

  17. #17

    Απάντηση: Re: Model options

    Hello Mark,

    The tyre sizes that you intend to try are "typically" not correct. To make myself clear, the correct sizes for the front axle are 175/55R15 or 195/50 R15. Therefore, although the tyre width will not have any problem to fit the alloy wheel, 185/55 is "higher" tyre than the recommended 175/55, which will result a bigger total wheel diameter.

    Same with the rear wheels: The correct sizes are 175/55R15 and 195/50R15 (talking for 15" alloys). So I would not recommend wider wheels, as 195's are enough.

    Unfortunately, selecting tyres for the front wheels on a smart fortwo gives you very limited choices; there are not many brands for the recommended sizes.

    I would strongly recommend the Continental "ContiPremiumContact 2", which I have at my fortwo (175/55R15-195/50R15) since August 2010 and I am very satisfied (everyday use, under all weather conditions).


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